some of us think they should do the latter. but this is a big question in washington these days. >> but when you were coming up with the idea, part of coming up with this idea, with the white board, did it ever occur to you that it could ever come to this? where you've got the cbo, the congressional budget office saying, wait a minute, if we go over the fiscal cliff, the u.s. can go back into recession. did anybody think about the ramifications like these tax cuts, these tax cuts and all this spending going on? >> well, i think that the question is, you know, how do we pay for the tax cuts. and i think there are reasonable ways to do so. it just seems that our friends on capitol hill on both sides of the aisle have a difficulty in, you know, making necessary -- making necessary spending reductions to enable progrowth policies to persist. and that's an unfortunate thing. yeah, look, this was -- i heard a previous guest say this was a deal with the devil because it, you know, because it -- you got tax cuts now for ten years and a